CO₂ – The Hidden Hero of Breathing

00:00:06: Servus and welcome to another episode of the Spira podcast exploring the dimensions of breathing.

00:00:14: I'm Alexander Jonas, my guest today is Anders Olsson.

00:00:19: The Swedish Breathing Expert has spent many years researching how our breathing affects health well-being and performance And became known an audience millions through James Nester's bestseller book

00:00:34: breath.

00:00:49: One of Anders Olsson's main areas of interest is carbon dioxide or CO₂, a gas we usually think as waste products for our metabolism but one that performs many important functions in the body.

00:01:05: I recorded this interview with Anders Olsen in English For Spira.

00:01:10: This interview was available both in English and German translation.

00:01:18: Hello and welcome to Spira.

00:01:20: And hello and welcome to Anders Olsson.

00:01:24: I'm really happy that you joined Spira, taking time for our podcast platform.

00:01:31: Thank-you for having me!

00:01:32: I am very happy to be here.

00:01:33: Yeah, thank you Anders.

00:01:37: You are well known Your work is well know In the beginning of your talk in your first steps into the breathing journey?

00:01:56: Yeah.

00:01:56: My breathing journey started, I think...I'm an entrepreneur so i started my own company when I was like nineteen or twenty and built a IT company that was quite successful.

00:02:09: then I sold it kind of got bored with and being successful, earning money chasing money.

00:02:20: And when I had that it felt quite empty.

00:02:24: so...I wanted something more!

00:02:29: It coincided with my son being sick.

00:02:32: he got Lyme disease.

00:02:35: He was six.

00:02:37: at the time i had a quiet immature view of how the hospitals work.

00:02:47: I thought it was like in my computer world, It's either you're sick or your healthy.

00:02:51: You take a test?

00:02:52: Either it's yes Or no.

00:02:55: But that was not the case.

00:02:56: i realized Going to many doctors Trying To figure out what Was The issue with My son and That there was A lot Of guesswork.

00:03:08: It was not like black or white, it's really a sliding scale.

00:03:12: And as parents of course we want to help our children and for me that is the starting point trying to understand myself what was going on.

00:03:22: So when I just opened the door to health... ...I could never go back!

00:03:28: It was so fascinating, so interesting digging into how our body works.

00:03:35: My son is great now, but at a time he helped me to open that door.

00:03:39: A few years after that I found out about breathing... ...I read a book.

00:03:45: it's called How To Swap Asthma For Life.. ..I didn't have any problems with asthma But i had this racing mind This turbo.

00:03:54: It was kind of nice in once and awhile find the off switch and calm down.

00:04:02: And that was not my strong suit, I had problems with it.

00:04:06: When i read this book started to apply knowledge in techniques.

00:04:12: It almost immediately helped me calm down.

00:04:17: You can use your breath as a tool To calm you.

00:04:21: nervous system is very hard to think yourself.

00:04:24: calm or calm your heart.

00:04:27: beat, lower your pulse by your mere thoughts.

00:04:32: But with the breathing we can affect our brain or heart out of digestion.

00:04:36: just by slowing down our breathing We slow the nervous system and there will be different brain waves in a lower heartbeat.

00:04:45: usually.

00:04:47: The next step was publishing conscious breathing.

00:04:52: Yes.

00:04:52: Some years later, or was this already at the beginning?

00:04:58: I think it took about one and a half year after i found breathing so to say until i ran my first conscious reading instructor course.

00:05:09: in another year until i published The Book Conscious Breathing...

00:05:13: ...I read that the start wasn't like a rocket!

00:05:21: Slow steps.

00:05:22: at your first workshop there was one participant.

00:05:26: That's right.

00:05:26: Yes, yes One and the second they were two

00:05:30: And it wasn't more.

00:05:31: yeah exactly if you're positive You would think wow within three years I will fill a football stadium.

00:05:38: Right.

00:05:39: but Of course that was very very little success in the beginning.

00:05:46: But i figured i just have to to find you in my concept, the message I send out.

00:05:53: What is it that are communicating?

00:05:55: How can i attract more people?

00:05:56: how Can I fine-tune The Concept and improve It?

00:05:59: so I just took it as a challenge.

00:06:02: Sometimes we go with the little Successful With the project

00:06:06: yeah And I think In a way we learn more when things go wrong than everything goes smoothly.

00:06:13: We buy new thing, plug it in and everything works...

00:06:17: No idea about that!

00:06:18: And then when

00:06:19: the problem breaks down you just stand there with no clue.

00:06:25: If the opposite is true ...we start with problems but are forced to dig into them.

00:06:34: When you published conscious breathing your work was primarily about changing our breath, changing...

00:06:40: Yes.

00:06:41: Today CO₂ is much more in the focus of your work?

00:06:47: Is it a change from perspective or rather to go one step further?

00:06:54: Yeah!

00:06:54: A continuation.

00:06:56: I mean the realization came rather quickly on the importance of CO₀ that actually at end today whether you just slow down your breathing, whether you do nasal breathing when you move your body.

00:07:13: It helps to increase your CO-tolerance.

00:07:16: so the CO was there from start but it's more focused on daily breathing habits The thousand breaths we take each hour and how could improve them.

00:07:27: How can realize that?

00:07:29: closing our mouth or breathing through nose has many benefits.

00:07:34: using our diaphragm has many benefits over high chest breathing, slowing down our breathing as many benefits etc.

00:07:42: So the realization in a way that CO-II is what we help increase.

00:07:47: then it was already there from start because The first breeding course I took based on Konstantin butek or Russian sorry Ukrainian professor and doctor who put lot of emphasis on CO-I.

00:08:04: Then over the years, it has become

00:08:05: more and

00:08:06: more important to put that forward as The number one key.

00:08:14: Let me ask you when your talking about CO² tolerance What exactly changes?

00:08:21: When do we become more tolerant of CO²?

00:08:25: And how does this affect our daily unconscious breathing

00:08:33: When we take the next breath, if you ask yourself a question what makes us take our next breath?

00:08:39: What stimulates breathing?

00:08:41: and we think well it's oxygen right.

00:08:44: We need oxygen.

00:08:45: so...we bring in more oxygen.

00:08:48: but actually unless we are quite sick body doesn't care much about reading oxygen as a signal.

00:08:56: The body cares about oxygen, we need oxygen.

00:08:59: We die if you stop breathing because we then lack oxygen and can't produce energy efficiently enough.

00:09:06: but the signal that controls our breathing it's carbon dioxide.

00:09:12: so in our brainstems we have survival functions your temperature heart rate end of breathing.

00:09:23: If this is the threshold when... ...the brainstem is triggered, saying okay.

00:09:29: When?

00:09:29: The CO²?

00:09:30: because we inhale oxygen and produce CO² in our body And then we exhale CO².

00:09:36: So In the brainstem We have this threshold.

00:09:40: so when the CO² produced on your body reach this threshold It triggers a breath On the out-breath.

00:09:47: We exhale CO₂ to lower it.

00:09:51: This is a continuous cycle, right?

00:09:54: And what happens if we go through a stressful period.

00:09:58: We typically change the settings in the brainstem so... ...we tolerate lower levels of CO₂ meaning that it takes shorter time to reach the threshold to trigger a new breath.

00:10:10: So low-CO₂ tolerance means That we have faster breathing which is the hallmark.

00:10:17: our stress.

00:10:18: this type of breathing but Actually, not this type.

00:10:21: I'm just doing it to illustrate but the invisible form of overbreeding that so many people go around with.

00:10:29: or we Go through a stressful period and then we lower the thresholds So we suffer from that stressful period for long time We have established is lowered threshold And we may are not aware that we Have faster breathing.

00:10:49: I mean, no one is supposed to pay attention... ...to their breathing in the first place.

00:10:53: It's an automatic function.

00:10:55: it should pay attention to itself.

00:10:58: Sorry!

00:11:00: So we are not aware that we're over-breathing and i've counted a number of breaths on hundreds and hundreds of people.

00:11:08: And every time when you see someone who takes twenty-three, twenty five breaths per minute.

00:11:17: That is really a lot!

00:11:18: A very big overbreeding.

00:11:20: but you cannot really spot that to an untrained eye.

00:11:24: it's very hard too To see and we are over breathing.

00:11:28: so I would say many of us doing this without knowing it meaning then that We have low tolerance for CO².

00:11:38: So we may not feel stressed now But we had period where were stress before We kind

00:11:48: of... You don't find the balance again.

00:11:49: No, and we think that okay this is me.

00:11:53: I may have a lot of stress or i have a Lot of fears or worries or anxiety Or?

00:11:59: I'm always late to meetings or this on that.

00:12:02: That's just my personality.

00:12:04: but when you look at it from a breathing perspective You can actually see that It's a chemistry The chemistry of fear the chemistry of stress.

00:12:13: so When you change that chemistry, in a way... ...you can almost then change your personality or at least you could view it as... You lower the stress.

00:12:23: You lower your fear and worry and anxiety And I think this is what most people want.

00:12:30: We want energy and we want harmony and health of course But energy the currency for our body to be able to stay healthy, for the immune system to fight bacteria etc.

00:12:45: Everything we do.

00:12:45: we need energy.

00:12:46: so oxygen is crucial for that.

00:12:50: but it doesn't matter if you have a lot of oxidant in your blood.

00:12:54: We want the oxidant to reach the cell and the mitochondria In the cell.

00:13:00: yeah.

00:13:01: And CO₂ is that signal.

00:13:04: CO₂ is actually the delivery mechanism, helping us to bring the oxygen all away from atmosphere because it stimulates the breathing.

00:13:15: It keeps their airways open so that they can travel easily down into lungs and keep blood vessels open.

00:13:22: So when the oxygen we inhale has been transferred in the lung through the blood it can go travel out of the body.

00:13:29: The final step the offloading of CO too.

00:13:34: So, in the lungs hemoglobin like a sponge suck up the oxidant and hold it tight.

00:13:43: And then when The the Hemoglobin reach working tissue Like if I'm working out this muscle It needs more oxidant than this muscle that is at rest.

00:13:58: so This working muscle produces CO² and the way that body perceives it is, okay work is going on there.

00:14:10: Send resources!

00:14:12: So blood is directed to the working tissue.

00:14:16: Oxygen is directed here.

00:14:18: so when it reaches there... ...and hemoglobin which holds tight oxygen reaches higher levels of oxygen in the working tissues.

00:14:27: That is the signal for hemoglobin to let go of the oxygen.

00:14:33: So it's not, you know we take in oxidant and then its delivered by chance –by coincidence!

00:14:38: Of course.

00:14:39: that isn't how our sophisticated body works.

00:14:42: It's a very thoughtful mechanism.

00:14:45: It delivers oxidant where it is needed And CO₂ is the main signal.

00:14:51: So I'm writing on a book, an upcoming book.

00:14:54: It's called CO-II The Master Regulator How it regulates the lot of processes in our body and how is main and major signal A signal that oxidin doesn't carry.

00:15:08: so when Our society has raised the oxidin to disguise saying oxidin is the hero Is fantastic!

00:15:16: And made CO-I the villain.

00:15:19: Actually CO₂ is what helps us to oxidinate our body efficiently.

00:15:26: So I'm not saying that oxygen is bad, right?

00:15:29: I am saying that carbon dioxide is the molecule which helps efficient oxidation.

00:15:39: Maybe i'm wrong but while looking into your work I think that capnography plays a minor role.

00:15:46: No!

00:15:47: I am very, very interested in it.

00:15:49: so that's the next thing i would like to dig deeper into.

00:15:53: To

00:15:54: explain our listeners or participants, capnography is a method to measure the end titles.

00:16:02: you too yes yeah Yeah.

00:16:05: In my own work i use capnography very much Yeah, because I think in combination with hardware variability and the measuring of muscle tension it gives us very much information about chemistry.

00:16:22: The

00:16:23: idea that our breathing carries a respiratory signature just like a fingerprint has been shown.

00:16:36: That is the next thing I really want to dig deep into, because it also seems that... It's not only to assume if you are poor health and have low levels of CO² in your output.

00:16:49: There could be differences.

00:16:51: You can still have a poor health having fine readings.

00:16:55: so digging into trying to understand ...I think this is huge project for collecting data and building an understanding but That is so.

00:17:07: I don't think you're wrong at all.

00:17:08: Maybe i can learn a lot from You in that the experience, you have.

00:17:13: we could talk about it?

00:17:13: Yeah We are listening to a conversation with the swedish breathing expert Anders Olsson.

00:17:25: Towards the end of the first part we talked About capnography A method that allows us To measure The carbon dioxide concentration In the air we breathe out of the other important functions of carbon dioxide in our body.

00:17:43: We discuss ways influencing CO₂ levels, its relationship with relaxation and sleep... ...and some questions that science still needs to answer!

00:17:59: If you are interested in Anders Olsson methods for COₒ applications.

00:18:03: You can find an informational video on the show notes And at Spira.net.

00:18:10: In this video Anders personally introduced his products, such as the CardiHaler or the Spectacular Cardisute.

00:18:20: And now back to Anders Olsson and the second part of our conversation... You already mentioned Konstantin Podeko?

00:18:33: Yes!

00:18:34: He has clearly influenced your work

00:18:37: a lot

00:18:37: but his method is to conserve CO₂ in metabolic circulation.

00:18:45: Your work now isn't not a different direction, but it's maybe a different method.

00:18:50: How do you see this?

00:18:51: Because your adding CO₂ from outside...

00:18:55: Yes

00:18:57: Do you see that as one step further to constant input?

00:19:02: echo?

00:19:04: I guess things evolve You find differently But It was done even before him.

00:19:10: and do CO² therapy, you can inhale it.

00:19:16: You can absorb through the skin whether its a water CO² bath which has history of hundreds years where they go to hot springs that are popular here in Austria and Germany and Czech Republic or Japan bags, dry CO-tube bats.

00:19:39: You can inject it with syringe you take it rectally.

00:19:46: so giving CO-Tube I would say is older than Buteco.

00:19:52: He popularized the idea of slowing down your breathing to increase your tolerance for CO-Tube but there's a book that came out in nineteen oh five carbon dioxide in medicine Where they talk about these things from inhaling to a giving rectally too absorbing it through the skin via dry bats and It showed very promising results actually.

00:20:20: Yeah, so I think rather i would say that i'm reviving history or helping people get access the positive effects given in hot springs.

00:20:38: CO² is really so much more than just a waste product, it's actually... It helps the body to reduce resistance and friction by opening up the airways keeping the airway open keeping their blood vessels opened.

00:20:56: So this smooth muscle we have In our body, so we have three types of muscles.

00:21:02: The heart muscle.

00:21:03: We have the skeletal muscle that we can move and control by will.

00:21:07: And then when they live in an environment That is low in CO² They start to constrict and cram.

00:21:23: So in asthma which means we have narrow airways and we have low CO₂.

00:21:29: It is called a bronchospasms, right?

00:21:33: Spasms in the airways In angina pectoris when we have narrow blood vessels.

00:21:41: Angina pectorus is another word for cramp in your blood vessel.

00:21:44: so When we increase COₒ We reduce the friction and resistance.

00:21:51: So we restore the flow of air Restore the flow.

00:21:56: Probably that is why we feel so relaxed, because our body doesn't need to fight as much.

00:22:02: To stay alive less energy is consumed... ...to stay alive So more energy will can be used for put a smile on our face feeling happy and harmonious And yeah We'll feel more energetic.

00:22:19: maybe

00:22:19: The end point you're trying to reach is to reach balance And the CO-II is...the main tool?

00:22:30: Yes, CO-IIs a normalizer.

00:22:31: CO- IIis the relaxing agent Just as we mentioned earlier.

00:22:37: there's chemistry of fear and stress.

00:22:41: There also a chemistry of sleep.

00:22:44: When you go to sleep your breathing slows down The area is tightened in our throat.

00:22:51: We increase our CO-III levels from five to fifteen percent.

00:22:57: And those people who have problems falling asleep or keep waking up a number of times at night, they tend to have low CO² tolerance.

00:23:08: so they can't really tolerate this increase in CO² that is needed in order get into deep sleep.

00:23:16: because if we look it form an evolutionary perspective... get it going to sleep.

00:23:25: That is one of the most dangerous activities we can ever do, because we could be killed and eaten right?

00:23:31: So... The brain has to feel safe enough To let go And CO₂ is that safe molecule, that relaxing molecule.

00:23:42: We talked earlier about the brainstem having a threshold for CO₀ tolerance.

00:23:49: When you reach this threshold You will trigger a breath And the same in our brain, in general.

00:23:56: In our electrical body we have...in our brain we have nerve signals right?

00:24:02: So a nerve signal it fires and gives rise to muscle movement or thought

00:24:08: etc.,

00:24:10: There is also threshold that this nervous signal needs go above.

00:24:17: This threshold is regulated by CO².

00:24:19: If you are stressed we get a racing mind.

00:24:26: We lower CO₂, the threshold lowers so more of the nerve signals will fire... ...we may not be able to sit still and move but that's our body's defense mechanism wanting to produce more CO₀ to keep up with outflow in low levels.

00:24:44: So try increase it.

00:24:46: When you increase COₑ then when going to sleep you will increase the threshold, right?

00:24:54: So it would be harder for the nerve signals to fire.

00:24:59: It'll basically calm the brain.

00:25:01: so that's why moving your body at daytime usually translates as being able to sleep better.

00:25:09: because when you move your body a day time train your bodies and tolerate CO² you ensure that your brain stem has a high tolerance for CO².

00:25:21: And then when you go to sleep, it is easier if increase the levels of CO² so you reach that threshold where the brain is calm enough to allow you to sleep.

00:25:33: That makes sense right?

00:25:34: The chemistry of sleep is the chemistry of CO₂.

00:25:38: So allowing CO₀ is what help you fall asleep If you have problems falling asleep You can think when laying there in the bed, okay now I'm slowing down my breathing so i'm slowly increasing my CO-II levels and at some point it will reach the level where my brain feels safe.

00:25:59: And I would fall asleep!

00:26:00: So just that knowledge may be able to help you sleep better.

00:26:05: if we take a really big perspective research tells us that the earth has been around for four and half billion years something like And they also suggest that the level of CO₂ in the atmosphere was around maybe five percent, which is similar to what we have on a healthy cell.

00:26:26: But for the first half of their Earth's history there were no oxygen.

00:26:31: so life developed together with carbon dioxide.

00:26:35: and then about two billion years ago half our earths' history oxidant came around And it increased in the atmosphere when cyanobacteria produced as a byproduct.

00:26:49: It's called the greatest mass extinction that the world has ever faced, when accidents started to increase because most of their organisms could not tolerate an accident.

00:27:01: so they got extinct.

00:27:04: Carbon dioxide is prerequisite for all life forms.

00:27:12: In step two, oxidant is a prerequisite for complex life forms.

00:27:18: Not all life forms require oxygen but all live forms require carbon dioxide.

00:27:23: so complex lifeforms was made available when oxidants came around because we required enormous amount of energy and that's how we use oxidant to produce energy efficiently.

00:27:35: yeah But it's important to understand the hierarchy.

00:27:39: CO₂ came first, then came oxidant.

00:27:41: so we use oxidant tower advantage but CO₁ is a crucial companion not only to deliver the oxidant to the cells in mitochondria... ...but also protect our body from oxidative damage.

00:28:00: So we used the fact that oxidant is extremely reactive.

00:28:04: we use it to our advantage when we extract energy from the food.

00:28:08: We eat without oxygen, we extract very little food.

00:28:12: sorry...little energy with oxygen and we extract a lot of energy but it has to be done in a safe environment in our mitochondria.

00:28:21: And once you two levels are low there will be more of these free radicals Free oxygen radical that leads to inflammation Across the line, almost all diseases known to man.

00:28:34: there is usually a higher levels of inflammation.

00:28:37: So CO₂ is also protecting us – almost acting like an antioxidant which most of us know….

00:28:45: …which is food that helps us protect ourselves from oxidants.

00:28:51: One example to illustrate this if you take a bite in apple and put it down... we remove the peel from the apple then, right?

00:29:01: We put it down and it will turn brown after a short period of time.

00:29:07: And that is because its exposed to oxidant Because oxidant is so extremely reactive.

00:29:12: So... The apple has a peel A banana has one An avocado have one.

00:29:17: We have our skin.

00:29:18: as appeal yeah!

00:29:20: That's to protect from oxidative damage.

00:29:25: In this book I'm writing there i talk about four different pillars where CO₂ is heavily involved.

00:29:31: So one, the delivery.

00:29:33: we mentioned it quite briefly.

00:29:36: another that was just talked about protecting.

00:29:40: a third one is calming the body which will also talk about calming their brain.

00:29:45: and fourth one is defending CO₁.

00:29:50: how for example block nose could be seen as defense mechanism from the body trying to prevent the loss of CO₂, because most of the CO₀ is lost via the outbreath.

00:30:03: And when there are countless people that have been addicted to nasal sprays... ...because their blocked nose and then they understood the dynamic, the logic from the body.. ..to make the nose blocked?

00:30:16: Because we had erectile tissue here!

00:30:19: They started to slow down their breathing increase their CO₁ tolerance and they've been able to skip to stop using the nasal sprays.

00:30:31: and so there are many different mechanisms.

00:30:33: So when it comes to wound healing, actually that CO-II has an effect on the immune system.

00:30:44: The inflammation process goes through different stages.

00:30:47: first is inflammation which is needed to take care of the wound, but then at some point that inflammation should stop and the cells they start repairing.

00:31:01: And when CO₂ is low... ...the cells get stuck in inflammation mode.

00:31:09: They don't make a switch!

00:31:11: That's because CO₀ has an effect on immune cells that should make this switch.

00:31:18: I'm looking forward to it too.

00:31:19: Yeah,

00:31:20: me too!

00:31:21: i can't wait for it to be finished.

00:31:23: you wouldn't guess... It's four hundred pages five hundred scientific references.

00:31:28: the CO² theory is around one hundred and seventy-five scientific reference.

00:31:34: yeah so its a long project.

00:31:35: now.

00:31:37: uh yeah at the beginning we talked about your start in your breathing journey.

00:31:43: yes

00:31:44: Let me end our talk with a question in the opposite direction about CO².

00:31:52: What's the answer you want to know?

00:31:55: One dream I have is that the book, The New Book will spread to other people so more people can discover the power of CO² and start to play around with it.

00:32:07: maybe they do their own foot bath or they do sodium bicarbonate and mix it with citric acid.

00:32:17: And they start to share it with their friends, they give us feedback.

00:32:21: so I would love all the people i have met and we have educated who have purchased our products...I hope that would ten X or hundred X not because I should be fat and rich but this is very simple and could have a lot of benefits.

00:32:43: So, I want to see if it really gives the same benefit on a real big scale.

00:32:51: and also when you talked about the end-tiler CO² that is something i'd like to investigate further and become nerdy in that.

00:33:06: yes... To be able collect data If this spreads, if we go from normally when you mention CO₂ it's... You don't even start neutral.

00:33:18: You're starting to minus its global warming.

00:33:21: CO₀ is the molecule going get us all killed because The water will rise and When he comes through our body It's just a toxin or waste product.

00:33:31: Get out of your system as soon as possible so doing that journey, taking it from something negative to something neutral and then to Something beneficial.

00:33:44: so there would be more research done.

00:33:47: The studies I find when i write this book in previously as well many of them are good but There is So much More That Needs To Be Researched because a lot Of the Studies They start researching you too with the notion that it is bad and then You design a study around that, and you may not get to answer That I would get if i designed this study.

00:34:16: Yeah.

00:34:16: so more research More.

00:34:18: II'm super curious just as curious as when I started seventeen years ago.

00:34:23: So these questions never stop coming?

00:34:26: So I think I Just want to know more where the end-tidal CO², the capnograph is one of them.

00:34:36: But also if you start to be able to collect data how do people react when they inhale CO²?

00:34:43: What's the dosage for this type a group?

00:34:45: what are athletes?

00:34:47: should I do it in evening?

00:34:49: five minutes or ten minutes being able to tailor protocols And I think measuring the CO₂ is a great part of that.

00:35:00: The Bottego developed control pause, which was also called the bold score... ...I call it the CTT carbon dioxide CO₀ tolerance training score and That's good but doesn't always reflect reality.

00:35:23: So we just make the first step, and next step.

00:35:25: The next step happens... We will see!

00:35:28: I don't have any exit strategy no-no-no i can see myself doing this rest of my life.

00:35:36: This sounds a bit nerdy maybe but you know.

00:35:39: But paying attention to your body And if You want it in one sentence?

00:35:46: The best thing is that doesn't cost anything.

00:35:50: go out for a walk, close your mouth and if you want to.

00:35:54: You can prolong your exhale.

00:35:56: so you count on the inhale-and-count on the exhale And take more steps or More pedal If you bike On the exhale.

00:36:07: That goes as well in our daily life.

00:36:10: The simplest tips is Close your mouth And prolong Your Exhale because that helps you To achieve that low diaphragmatic slow rhythmic breathing, so it's a good starting point.

00:36:23: A good starting points for breathing and also to the end of our talk.

00:36:28: thank you

00:36:29: very much!

00:36:30: Thank You Alexander!

00:36:31: I

00:36:31: enjoyed

00:36:33: it!

00:36:34: Thank

00:36:35: you so much!

00:36:41: You have been listening to a conversation with Anders Olsson recorded for Spira The Breathing Website.

00:36:48: Visit Spira.net to find further information about Anders Olsson and his fascinating CO-II applications.

00:36:57: If you enjoyed this podcast, I would appreciate if could leave a positive rating on your favorite podcast platform.

00:37:06: Thank You very much for listening!

00:37:08: And i look forward.

00:37:09: welcome you the next episode of The Spira Podcast exploring the dimensions.